“I research diversity and inclusion in organizations across the globe, investigating why leadership at the top of companies still comes nowhere near reflecting the population it serves. The same gap runs through funding: women make up a sizeable share of entrepreneurs yet receive only a fraction of the capital. To better understand both, my fellow researchers and I, who are part of the Visioning Inclusive Entrepreneurship (VIE) Research Network, wanted to bring together entrepreneurs from different backgrounds and perspectives to facilitate a dialogue on this topic.
“Our group of participants consisted of thirty people with diverse expertise and experiences in the field of diversity, such as neurodiversity, migration backgrounds, disabilities, and gender. They shared their stories, listened to one another, and engaged in conversation about our proposed research interventions. The beauty of dialogue is that you can bring in these perspectives, and you don’t have to be an expert on everything yourself. By bringing in more people to the conversation who bring new perspectives, you can see your topic in a new way.
“My idea for the dialogues was inspired by the Dialogue Incubator. There, I attended workshops on the importance of dialogue in the practice of scientists. An example emerged of doctors who organized a dialogue among burn victims and thereby learned that what patients cared about the most was the topic of itching associated with burns. This surprised the doctors, as they had initially envisioned a completely different research direction. That case inspired me to start organising dialogues myself.”
We as researchers often think we know what’s important and what should be on the research agenda, but by listening to different perspectives from society, you discover what you’re missing.”
Which conversations and perspectives have stayed with you the most?
“Participants shared all kinds of horror stories. For example, a queer and neurodivergent founder shared that people have called his business “cute,” until he started to position it a certain way. A female entrepreneur of color said she's brought men with her to pitching events because she felt people didn't take her seriously unless she did that. An investor who is a woman told us that once, at an event she attended, entrepreneurs were told to find the men with white beards, ignoring that women do invest.
And there was also an investor who attended a signing ceremony with only older white men in the picture. While she alerted the individuals involved that this does not adequately represent the investment team as no women were present, the photograph went through with lots of backlash on LinkedIn. These are all painful stories, and they’re still happening - even in a country like the Netherlands, where we have this sense of equality.”
And what were the key findings?
"The most surprising thing wasn't what we still need to investigate, but how much we've known for a long time and still haven't acted on as a society. We know accountability matters, like making the funding of women-led businesses a KPI for investors. And we know representation matters, and that who sits in the room shapes who gets funded. The hard part is that companies want a solution that can be cookie-cuttered into every organization, but that's quite difficult, because what works in one sector or region usually has to be adapted for the next.
"The dialogue also reminded us not to rely on anecdotes alone but on the hard numbers, which often show a problem is more widespread than isolated stories suggest. That's the work Code-V is doing here in the Netherlands, and what the World Bank's We-Fi is doing globally through its WE Finance Code. I collaborate with both, because you can't fix what you can't see.
“It also showed where evidence is thinnest: how sponsorship really changes outcomes for underrepresented entrepreneurs, why so much of the support that already exists never reaches the entrepreneurs who need it across cultural and language barriers, and when role models shift a system rather than reinforce its barriers. And it reminded us that researchers need to talk to entrepreneurs far more than we do, and help turn knowledge into action."
What makes you a free thinker?
“I’m an ethnographer by training and try to view life through an anthropological lens. That means observing without judgment and trying to understand why people do what they do. I try to understand what’s going on from their perspective. To me, that’s what free thinking is.
“We are all shaped by our ideas and beliefs and by our past experiences. But you can set those aside for a moment and try to understand how someone else experiences his or her life. If you start with the everyday aspects of daily life, you often see that people are less different from one another than you think. Everyone wants to feel loved and safe and to find meaning in life. By trying to understand how someone else experiences those same things, new insights emerge. That anthropological mindset helps me to remain open to other perspectives and to think freely.”
Are you a scientist and want to know what dialogue can mean for you? Take a look at the Network Science in Dialogue page.
VU Amsterdam seeks and nurtures societal dialogue, is a leader in research, and educates global citizens who contribute to a better world in both word and deed. This is our vision for 2035. Have a look at the strategic plan 2026–2030 here.
